I am confused by relativity

[Pentcho Valev]

Relativity Geometry
Relativity - Affine Geometry ?
Einstein's special theory of relativity is about measurements between frames
of reference in a state of non acceleration.

Not really. Special relativity can work with accelerated
objects and frames, but never mind.

It is an observation that the
velocity of light is independent of the relative velocity between observer
and the source. From this Lorenz postulated a length contraction to allow
for this. Einstein derived the same equation from the observations.
If you look at this equation there is no special frame so any frame may be
taken as the reference frame.
Let us consider the passage of mesons from the origin in the upper
atmosphere to their arrival at a counter on the earth's surface. The
observer "sees" the origin from his frame and since he is "looking" at the
meson then this point is only a few feet above the laboratory roof because
of the Lorenz contraction.

No, not at all.
The observer on the ground knows that and where in the upper
atmosphere muons (and other stuff) are created. Also knowing
how short muons live on the average, he calculates that there
are much more muons reaching the ground than expected.
It turns out that if the "internal muon lifetime clocks" are slowed
down by the precisely the amount described by the equations,
the number that reaches the ground fits the expected value.
This is "time dilation" in action.

Moortel Moortel what you call "how short muons live on average" your
masters used to call "muon lifetime at rest". But they don't even
mention it anymore. Why? Because people now know that this "muon
lifetime at rest" is one of the greatest frauds ever devised by
Einstein criminal cult:

http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.physics.relativity/browse_frm/thread/69ad1af61851c041?

When the lifetime "at rest" is measured, by "at rest" Einstein
criminal cult mean a crash undergone by the muon in which its speed
changes from about 300000km/s to zero. That crash is so terrible that
the muon "dies" quickly, much more quickly than muons that have not
undergone the crash:

http://web.mit.edu/c_hill/www/muons_paper.pdf
"In this experiment, we measure two of the basic properties of the
muon, namely, its mean lifetime and mass in its rest frame. We measure
the decay curve of cosmic-ray muons that have come to rest in a
plastic scintillator by looking for electrons produced in their
decay."

Pentcho Valev
***@yahoo.com

[Chris]

I don't think he was wrong, just misunderstood and I don't understand it
either.

The lorenz transform is symmentrical so mesons see the atmosphere contracted
and the earth based observer sees the point where the mesons are coming from
contracted too.

Emperiment to test what I say:
If you put coincident counters up in such a way as to track the path of the
mesons and it wax possible to find where a particular shower originated from
the measurement would find the spallation point just above the lab not 100
miles away. Measurement is by triangulation.

So a pile of counters in a cube could find the direction of the particles
and thus where coincident particles originated from.

Merry Christmas

Post by Pentcho Valev

Relativity Geometry
Relativity - Affine Geometry ?
Einstein's special theory of relativity is about measurements between frames
of reference in a state of non acceleration.

Not really. Special relativity can work with accelerated
objects and frames, but never mind.

It is an observation that the
velocity of light is independent of the relative velocity between observer
and the source. From this Lorenz postulated a length contraction to allow
for this. Einstein derived the same equation from the observations.
If you look at this equation there is no special frame so any frame may be
taken as the reference frame.
Let us consider the passage of mesons from the origin in the upper
atmosphere to their arrival at a counter on the earth's surface. The
observer "sees" the origin from his frame and since he is "looking" at the
meson then this point is only a few feet above the laboratory roof because
of the Lorenz contraction.

No, not at all.
The observer on the ground knows that and where in the upper
atmosphere muons (and other stuff) are created. Also knowing
how short muons live on the average, he calculates that there
are much more muons reaching the ground than expected.
It turns out that if the "internal muon lifetime clocks" are slowed
down by the precisely the amount described by the equations,
the number that reaches the ground fits the expected value.
This is "time dilation" in action.

Moortel Moortel what you call "how short muons live on average" your
masters used to call "muon lifetime at rest". But they don't even
mention it anymore. Why? Because people now know that this "muon
lifetime at rest" is one of the greatest frauds ever devised by
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.physics.relativity/browse_frm/thread/69ad1af61851c041?
When the lifetime "at rest" is measured, by "at rest" Einstein
criminal cult mean a crash undergone by the muon in which its speed
changes from about 300000km/s to zero. That crash is so terrible that
the muon "dies" quickly, much more quickly than muons that have not
http://web.mit.edu/c_hill/www/muons_paper.pdf
"In this experiment, we measure two of the basic properties of the
muon, namely, its mean lifetime and mass in its rest frame. We measure
the decay curve of cosmic-ray muons that have come to rest in a
plastic scintillator by looking for electrons produced in their
decay."
Pentcho Valev

[Dirk Van de moortel]

Post by Chris
I don't think he was wrong, just misunderstood and I don't understand it
either.
The lorenz transform is symmentrical so mesons see the atmosphere contracted
and the earth based observer sees the point where the mesons are coming from
contracted too.

No, as I explained to you when you were signing as "Abonito",
that's completely wrong.
1) That "point" does not move.
2) "points" cannot contract since they have no length.
Before you try to understand the transformation, you should
first understand what the variables in the equations stand for.
Can you try to explain what you think the variables mean?

Dirk Vdm

[Androcles]

"Chris" <***@noserver.com> wrote in message news:SO6cj.40932$***@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
:I don't think he was wrong, just misunderstood and I don't understand it
: either.
:
: The lorenz transform is symmentrical

Ok, that is why you don't understand it. What you have NOT
done is examined how the "Lorentz Transformations" (which I call
the cuckoo malformations) came into non-existence.
The mathematics is in section 3 of
"On The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" by Albert Crazy Einstein,
and I've explained it here:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/Smart.htm

[Jeckyl]

Post by Androcles
:I don't think he was wrong, just misunderstood and I don't understand it
: either.
: The lorenz transform is symmentrical
Ok, that is why you don't understand it.

You think it isn't symmetrical? That the LT is its own inverse?

Post by Androcles
What you have NOT
done is examined how the "Lorentz Transformations" (which I call
the cuckoo malformations)

Which, as you are a prime example of a cuckoo, means nothing.

Post by Androcles
came into non-existence.
The mathematics is in section 3 of
"On The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" by Albert Crazy Einstein,
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/Smart.htm

Your silly animation does NOT show what AE's definition means at all. He
says that in a given single frame of reference, in which A and B are at
rest, the time taken for light to go from A to B is the same as B to A, and
that if their clocks show this, then their clocks are in sync (and vice
versa).

You say "Gee, I hope I didn't make any errors, I so much want to understand
relativity."

That, of course, is a lie. You don't want to understand. You want Einstein
(and a century's worth of physicists) to be wrong and so you deliberately
misunderstand to make it so. Just so you can feed your own ego. Sad.

[Chris]

This would mean that the twin paradox does not occur.
--
Chris (=Abonito)
http://www.myphilosophy.eu

Post by Pentcho Valev

Relativity Geometry
Relativity - Affine Geometry ?
Einstein's special theory of relativity is about measurements between frames
of reference in a state of non acceleration.

Not really. Special relativity can work with accelerated
objects and frames, but never mind.

It is an observation that the
velocity of light is independent of the relative velocity between observer
and the source. From this Lorenz postulated a length contraction to allow
for this. Einstein derived the same equation from the observations.
If you look at this equation there is no special frame so any frame may be
taken as the reference frame.
Let us consider the passage of mesons from the origin in the upper
atmosphere to their arrival at a counter on the earth's surface. The
observer "sees" the origin from his frame and since he is "looking" at the
meson then this point is only a few feet above the laboratory roof because
of the Lorenz contraction.

No, not at all.
The observer on the ground knows that and where in the upper
atmosphere muons (and other stuff) are created. Also knowing
how short muons live on the average, he calculates that there
are much more muons reaching the ground than expected.
It turns out that if the "internal muon lifetime clocks" are slowed
down by the precisely the amount described by the equations,
the number that reaches the ground fits the expected value.
This is "time dilation" in action.

Moortel Moortel what you call "how short muons live on average" your
masters used to call "muon lifetime at rest". But they don't even
mention it anymore. Why? Because people now know that this "muon
lifetime at rest" is one of the greatest frauds ever devised by
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.physics.relativity/browse_frm/thread/69ad1af61851c041?
When the lifetime "at rest" is measured, by "at rest" Einstein
criminal cult mean a crash undergone by the muon in which its speed
changes from about 300000km/s to zero. That crash is so terrible that
the muon "dies" quickly, much more quickly than muons that have not
http://web.mit.edu/c_hill/www/muons_paper.pdf
"In this experiment, we measure two of the basic properties of the
muon, namely, its mean lifetime and mass in its rest frame. We measure
the decay curve of cosmic-ray muons that have come to rest in a
plastic scintillator by looking for electrons produced in their
decay."
Pentcho Valev

[Pentcho Valev]

Post by Chris
This would mean that the twin paradox does not occur.

It does not. If we did not live in Einstein zombie world, the
absurdity involved in the twin paradox and the concept of time
dilation in general would be easily demonstrated simply by considering
the following text of Einstein's:

http://www.bartleby.com/173/23.html
Albert Einstein (1879-1955). Relativity: The Special and General
Theory. 1920. Chapter 23:
"To start with, he places one of two identically constructed clocks at
the centre of the circular disc, and the other on the edge of the
disc, so that they are at rest relative to it. We now ask ourselves
whether both clocks go at the same rate from the standpoint of the non-
rotating Galileian reference-body K. As judged from this body, the
clock at the centre of the disc has no velocity, whereas the clock at
the edge of the disc is in motion relative to K in consequence of the
rotation. According to a result obtained in Section XII, it follows
that the latter clock goes at a rate permanently slower than that of
the clock at the centre of the circular disc, i.e. as observed from K.
It is obvious that the same effect would be noted by an observer whom
we will imagine sitting alongside his clock at the centre of the
circular disc."

One would verify Einstein's statements above, make a few modifications
in the thought experiment (e.g. the non-rotating clock at the centre
will go near the rotating periphery; there will be many rotating
clocks; the diameter of the disk will be made very long which, if the
linear speed of the periphery is kept constant, will make rotating
clocks almost inertial) and the idiocy called "time dilation" would be
rejected immediately. In Einstein zombie world the idiocy called "time
dilation" may continue to destroy human rationality forever.

Pentcho Valev
***@yahoo.com

[BURT]

Post by Pentcho Valev

Relativity Geometry
Relativity - Affine Geometry ?
Einstein's special theory of relativity is about measurements between frames
of reference in a state of non acceleration.

Not really. Special relativity can work with accelerated
objects and frames, but never mind.

It is an observation that the
velocity of light is independent of the relative velocity between observer
and the source. From this Lorenz postulated a length contraction to allow
for this. Einstein derived the same equation from the observations.
If you look at this equation there is no special frame so any frame may be
taken as the reference frame.
Let us consider the passage of mesons from the origin in the upper
atmosphere to their arrival at a counter on the earth's surface. The
observer "sees" the origin from his frame and since he is "looking" at the
meson then this point is only a few feet above the laboratory roof because
of the Lorenz contraction.

No, not at all.
The observer on the ground knows that and where in the upper
atmosphere muons (and other stuff) are created. Also knowing
how short muons live on the average, he calculates that there
are much more muons reaching the ground than expected.
It turns out that if the "internal muon lifetime clocks" are slowed
down by the precisely the amount described by the equations,
the number that reaches the ground fits the expected value.
This is "time dilation" in action.

Moortel Moortel what you call "how short muons live on average" your
masters used to call "muon lifetime at rest". But they don't even
mention it anymore. Why? Because people now know that this "muon
lifetime at rest" is one of the greatest frauds ever devised by
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.physics.relativity/browse_frm/threa...
When the lifetime "at rest" is measured, by "at rest" Einstein
criminal cult mean a crash undergone by the muon in which its speed
changes from about 300000km/s to zero. That crash is so terrible that
the muon "dies" quickly, much more quickly than muons that have not
http://web.mit.edu/c_hill/www/muons_paper.pdf
"In this experiment, we measure two of the basic properties of the
muon, namely, its mean lifetime and mass in its rest frame. We measure
the decay curve of cosmic-ray muons that have come to rest in a
plastic scintillator by looking for electrons produced in their
decay."
Pentcho Valev
- Show quoted text -

Pentcho, motion is detectable because it always starts with an
acceleration. This is true for anything except freefall. Freefall you
can measure when you hit the ground. For weightless acceleration of
gravity the detection of motion happens at DECELERATION.

Either way motion is detectable.

Mitch Raemsch -- frerfalll --